FOUR FRIENDS AND BABY-SITTING - WHAT COULD BE MORE FUN?
Welcome to our first discussion post! Don't panic if you haven't finished Kristy's Great Idea yet - we're all in different time zones, so things will be a little bit staggered. The post doesn't have an expiry date on it, so just comment whenever you're ready, and remember that anon posting is on if you'd prefer to stay logged out.
This is the post to discuss your reading of Kristy's Great Idea.
What was your favourite part? What was your least favourite part? Any memorable quotes you'd like to share? What had you forgotten about since the last time this book was read? If someone wrote a fic set during the timeline of this fic, what should they write?
There are no mandatory questions or points of discussion for this - anything you want to talk about in relation to this week's book, go ahead!
Next week's book is BSC #2 - Claudia and the Phantom Phone Calls
So apparently I have become a massive softie in the 20 or so years since I first read this book, because I cried at the end lmao.
I felt deliciously scared - and happy. We were friends again. Things were okay with Watson. The Baby-sitters Club was a success. I, Kristin Amanda Thomas, had made it work, or helped to make it work. I hoped that Mary Anne, Claudia, Stacey, and I - the Baby-sitters Club - would stay together for a long time.
*sniff* Oh Kristy ♥
Sidenote: my version has 'mum' instead of 'mom' scattered all the way through it, which I find super jarring, despite being Australian, and at one point Kristy is 'Kristin' and another she is 'Kristen'.
Kristy is girlier than I remember her being. Like, she carries a purse, a thing I can barely manage to do as an adult. And wears dresses to school. (I suspect both of these things are "author creep," where the author's own childhood norms have seeped through. It was still jarring though, because that's not how Kristy looks in my head!)
She is definitely girlier in the early books! She gets excited about dances and dresses in some of the upcoming books.
One thing that jumped out at me during this book was her complaining about how the boys were always doing gross things with the school lunches. Haha Kristy, I'm pretty sure you're guilty of this too.
It's still amusing how Stacey's diabetes is treated like this massive secret that she must keep or she'll be shunned! I know it wasn't as well known back in 86, but still.
It's really only treated as a big deal by Stacey though. Kristy is all "Oh is THAT all" about it, like she's disappointed that Stacey's secret is so mundane. And it turns out Kristy's cousin Robin has diabetes too!
There are so many things about this book that have just stuck in my head forever. Like, back when I first learned about drabbles, my initial thought was "OH like Kristy's decorum essay!"
Also some of Claudia's outfits. The skeletons! The telephone cord bracelet! The ginormous hat!
Like, back when I first learned about drabbles, my initial thought was "OH like Kristy's decorum essay!"
That is hilarious!
TBH, Kristy was making such a big deal out of it. Back in the day, I thought it was super cruel to have to write an extra 100 word essay, but now I'm like, "suck it up, Kristy, that's half a page."
Or, as you say, a drabble. ;)
Although I think it would be hard to find 100 words to say about decorum. (I don't have very much decorum, either.)
I was thinking about how much Adult!Stacey would appreciate the strides we've made in diabetes research in treatment. Today, Type I diabetics can eat like regular people, as long as they take insulin. Insulin has been improved, and insulin pumps are a thing- they're the closest thing we have right now to an artificial pancreas.
On a related note: my younger brother has type I diabetes, same as Stacey. Stacey was my entire frame of reference when he got diagnosed, which is both cute and hilarious, because the books were super out of date by that point.
And on a completely different note: I forgot that Kristy didn't like Watson at first! It's been a long time since I read it, and I always think of the later books, where they all get along. I felt so bad for Watson and Elizabeth, while watching Kristy be a total brat at that dinner. But it doesn't last, and everything works out. :)
Oh man she was a brat. When she yelled back down the stairs that he was a terrible father, and then she shut herself away in her room, I couldn't stop picturing what the scene at the table would be like, with the rest of them all sitting there... D:
The peanut butter and jelly sandwich Kristy made into a snowman because she didn't want to eat the food Watson brought! Bratty but very realistic for a 12 year old.
Diabetes research has been really great and I agree that Stacey would be happy. My older cousin was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes and I still remember being like "you can't eat that!" and she was like "yeah I can? I just need to adjust my insulin." Thanks Ann!
THIS. Although the books' portrayal of diabetes was never terrific, honestly. I have type one, and I was diagnosed in 1995, but hell, I could eat pizza. Not an entire pizza, but there's always this stuff about Stacey not being able to eat processed cheese and stuff and it's like... no? That was never a part of diabetic education AFAIK, even back when the "ideal" diabetic diet was very different to what it is today. Eating nothing but a salad and an apple, which I think is what she has at the slumber party, for dinner is such a bad plan. Welcome to Hypoville, population you.
...ahem. Sorry >_> These books are a tiny bit responsible for my epic freak-out when I first got diagnosed.
Kristy wears a skirt to school! That shocked me. I never pictured Elizabeth as the type to enforce "school clothes." It actually reads as weirdly old-fashioned for 1986.
Kristy's relationship with her mom is really sweet! And she called at 5:30 on the dot for their first meeting, so she would be their first ever client. All the girls seem so sweet and young and innocent and earnest.
Kristy coming to accept Watson is the greatest. I've always loved her and Watson's relationship. And Mimi is the absolute best. I'm so excited to read these pre-stroke books for Mimi. I really love getting to see the club develop its identity and all the weird early-book quirks (people mentioned the others, but another is that Elizabeth is Edie, which could certainly be a nickname but it's not used later). I'm excited to be re-reading.
I have this fierce loyalty towards 'Edie' and I use it in fic all the time. I might be a little biased, as my great-grandmother was 'Edie' and I've always found it to be a gorgeous name. I much prefer it over 'Liz' as a nickname.
I really love getting to see the club develop its identity
Yes, me too! Watching them learn how to handle their clients and jobs was so sweet. I had completely forgotten about Pinky and Buffy haha, and let's face it, the Club Notebook is actually a really great idea.
I loved Elizabeth's call to the BSC! Super sweet- if no one else called, they would have booked one job. <3 And Kristy was so embarrassed, because the Baby-Sitters Club is Serious Business.
Oh, I'm going to be so sad about Mimi. I'm not prepared for...anything.
Another thing I found weirdly jarring was that Patrick Thomas is apparently already married again and sends child support money. It also sounds like the "forgetting to call" thing is only kind of recent? Like Kristy is miffed that he didn't call for her 12th birthday; it sounds like she had genuinely expected him to, which doesn't fit with later versions of Patrick at all.
I'm going to adopt head-canon that Patrick's second wife, whoever she is, kind of encourages him to not be a COMPLETE dick, but when their marriage falls apart and/or he divorces her, he becomes the utter asshole we're more familiar with. And then when he's ready to marry Zoey, she encourages him to reach out to his kids again.
I have this vague feeling that he did get married multiple times? I don't know if I just assumed it because of what this book says (I would have read this one a lot) or if it's explicitly stated at some point.
And if you take The Summer Before as canon, Kristy's storyline is that she's desperately hoping Patrick will contact her for her birthday, despite years of evidence to the contrary, because she wants her family back together before Watson ruins the possibility of it ever happening. :(
Another thing I really liked was Kristy and Stacey's relationship. It's always seemed to me that they weren't terribly close, but I liked seeing Kristy make an effort with Stacey, especially in having the sleepover at her house because of Sam. That really surprised me and might be early bookitis again (you'd think Kristy's reaction would be "ew, gross" - I can't remember what it is to Stacey/Sam later!)
Yeah, I don't really think of Kristy and Stacey as having a particularly close relationship, but I think sometimes it's more interesting when the girls end up working with or hanging out with another member of the BSC they're not naturally close to.
I seem to remember Kristy thinking it was weird that anyone would want to date Sam, but I don't remember very well.
I was really struck by how rude the girls are to Janine. They're groaning if she's there and leaving the conversation mid-sentence. At the same time, Janine, does it really matter if someone uses "hopefully" incorrectly? I think constantly correcting people is also rude. I'm a little torn. Maybe they're all just rude. Maybe they could find a balance. But I do like when Janine is trying to figure out if the apostrophe in Baby-Sitter's Club is correct. That's cute.
One of the things that really date these books, is the total abhorrence of Janine's computer. The girls really mock her hard (at least not to her face) for being on the computer so much, especially in the earlier books. The 80's "computer nerd" stereotype was so prevalent. If they only knew that by Friends Forever, they'd be emailing.
Random side note: this book was the first time I'd seen the word anorexia and I had to go look it up in a dictionary.
One of my pet hates is when someone puts an apostrophe in "Baby-sitters Club" somewhere in fandom. As Janine says, it's not technically incorrect, but they've discussed IN CANON that there is NO apostrophe.
I found the "my peers feel so much more sophisticated than me" tension by the end kind of affecting because I've been there sometimes, at least when I'm comparing myself to people who seem sort of "artsier" or more complex than me. And not always in a good way--I feel like I'd be just as happy staying with the way things used to be! I guess that's an interesting look into Kristy's personality especially given the end of the series.
I'm curious about Janine's fourteen-year-old math genius friend! They'd be the same age as Sam (in the Math Club, maybe?)
They'd be the same age as Sam (in the Math Club, maybe?)
This is something I've never understood with Charlie/Janine. WHY DON'T PEOPLE PAIR HER WITH SAM? They're the same age and they can be brainy nerds together!
Hi, everyone! I’m so excited about this brand new read through – I just finished my reread. :) Some thoughts:
-I love how Elizabeth is upfront with her teenage children that she feels guilty she doesn’t get to spend as much time with them as she wants. So, a year after Patrick (boo, hiss) left, she got a job and as of book-time, she’s in a great position working at Stamford? Way to go.
I like how we get the sense the Thomases were their own competent little kingdom, even before Watson came along. Thomas(-Brewer) family feels forever, tbh.
-Claudia saying that "oh you just think [my face] is exotic" in response to Kristy saying she’s beautiful is pretty interesting! I’m Asian, and as I grew older, I did realize that talks about how "exotic" we are is quite iffy. I don’t remember if this ever comes up again, though.
-Every time I see the word hopefully, I think about Janine and her beef with it! Thanks, book! Also, I’m pretty amused by how Claudia’s taming of the Feldmans is inspired by what her parents do when "she and Janine misbehaved" because...what on earth was tiny genius Janine’s misbehavior like?
-Claudia and Kristy’s mutual "we’re really doing this club" squee and camping out beside the phone during the first club meeting! <3
-the "divorced kids are special kids" part is ADORABLE. Heh, Karen is actually pretty sweet before she gets flanderized and deprived of contractions.
-MIMI. Ugh, I’m already bracing myself for the tears.
-as an adult, I feel even more for Mary Anne who has to deal with things like crying in front of her entire class. Anxiety issues are the worst to begin with, but at the age of twelve? Oh, Mary Anne.
-and the woobie Stacey feels begin! I love how Claudia sticks up for Stacey’s right to privacy from the very beginning.
-Kristy is the first one, in canon, to call Stacey "Stace", how cute.
-Wow, I did not remember that Sam is in Math Club. And Stacey is a Math geek! I’m just, ahhh. Now I want fic where there’s an academic meet or something and they have to ~deal with being rivals~ and Kristy loudly cheers on both of them from the sidelines.
I like how we get the sense the Thomases were their own competent little kingdom, even before Watson came along. Thomas(-Brewer) family feels forever, tbh.
YES. I totally understand Kristy not wanting Watson to move in on their family, because they're managing so well (from her viewpoint, at least).
-as an adult, I feel even more for Mary Anne who has to deal with things like crying in front of her entire class. Anxiety issues are the worst to begin with, but at the age of twelve? Oh, Mary Anne.
Me too, me too :( :( I started getting panic attacks at 11, and it was AWFUL. Especially because anxiety wasn't really a ~thing that people diagnosed back then. I couldn't explain why I would burst into sudden tears or freak out at something that seemed so simple, and people always reacted in a way that made it worse. I was 22 before I realised I could simply say "I'm having a panic attack" and it would make everything easier, because at least then there was a reason to latch onto. I feel like Mary Anne's experience would be pretty much the same :(
-Wow, I did not remember that Sam is in Math Club. And Stacey is a Math geek! I’m just, ahhh. Now I want fic where there’s an academic meet or something and they have to ~deal with being rivals~ and Kristy loudly cheers on both of them from the sidelines.
Nerdy Stacey fic is my favourite kind of fic and I think I need this particular fic in my life, YES ♥
I just finished reading it this morning and have a lot of feelings!
Some observations, in no particular order:
-Going from reading this book at age 10 and reading it at almost 30 is a head trip. The girls manage to be more mature than I expected in some ways (how quickly and efficiently they made the club!), and very much kids in other ways (how they treat Janine and how Kristy reacts to Watson).
-I'd forgotten how grumpy Kristy is about Mr. Spier! To the point she even says Claudia's dad is better than him. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Mr. Spier over the next few books-- I didn't remember him being super strict, and even most of the rules he has in place seem pretty reasonable.
-I had remembered that Kristy dislikes Watson at first, but not to that extent. Definitely didn't remember the "you're a terrible father!" moment, jeez. Has anyone written the awkward dinner with everyone after Kristy stormed off? Because that had to have been SUPER awkward.
-How much do I love that Kristy gets inspired to create the club by David Michael? Though I feel bad thinking about how many times their mom struggled to find a sitter and David Michael sat there feeling like a burden. :( It's okay, David Michael!
-I work with children now, so Karen doesn't annoy me so much as make me laugh because I have had so many similar conversations with kids her age. Also I just imagine all the long-suffering conversations Watson must have with Mrs. Porter/Morbidda Destiny and laugh some more.
-One thing that dates the book is the fact that the girls use cursive in the notebook and with Kristy's letter to Watson!
-I really love the Thomas family-- I like how they've got a system worked out so that Kristy, Sam, and Charlie get free time but also help out at the house and with David Michael, and how it seems to work except for emergencies or baby-sitters falling through. I also laughed at the "okay, you're giving us pizza, WHAT'S GOING ON?" family dinner. And Elizabeth taking at least fifteen minutes each day to talk with her kids individually got me a bit emotional.
-I had zero memory of Stacey and Sam liking each other, and can't remember if that goes anywhere, but I did like Kristy's "??? Does not compute!" thoughts on them. But like redsilverchains and ozqueen said above, now I really want Stacey and Sam being math nerds together. They could get invited for the American Mathematics Competition or something!
-I work with children now, so Karen doesn't annoy me so much as make me laugh because I have had so many similar conversations with kids her age. Also I just imagine all the long-suffering conversations Watson must have with Mrs. Porter/Morbidda Destiny and laugh some more.
My favourite Karen line in this book is her "dolls can do whatever people do" aside, because when she starts listing activities that dolls can totally do it's like "they can [something mundane], they can breakdance, they can...". The breakdancing took me by surprise!
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stoneybrook2016-05-01 09:36 am
FOUR FRIENDS AND BABY-SITTING - WHAT COULD BE MORE FUN?
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*sniff* Oh Kristy ♥
Sidenote: my version has 'mum' instead of 'mom' scattered all the way through it, which I find super jarring, despite being Australian, and at one point Kristy is 'Kristin' and another she is 'Kristen'.
Also Karen is 5, what the hell?
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One thing that jumped out at me during this book was her complaining about how the boys were always doing gross things with the school lunches. Haha Kristy, I'm pretty sure you're guilty of this too.
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Also some of Claudia's outfits. The skeletons! The telephone cord bracelet! The ginormous hat!
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(Anonymous) 2016-05-01 12:12 am (UTC)(link)(no subject)
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That is hilarious!
TBH, Kristy was making such a big deal out of it. Back in the day, I thought it was super cruel to have to write an extra 100 word essay, but now I'm like, "suck it up, Kristy, that's half a page."
Or, as you say, a drabble. ;)
Although I think it would be hard to find 100 words to say about decorum. (I don't have very much decorum, either.)
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On a related note: my younger brother has type I diabetes, same as Stacey. Stacey was my entire frame of reference when he got diagnosed, which is both cute and hilarious, because the books were super out of date by that point.
And on a completely different note: I forgot that Kristy didn't like Watson at first! It's been a long time since I read it, and I always think of the later books, where they all get along. I felt so bad for Watson and Elizabeth, while watching Kristy be a total brat at that dinner. But it doesn't last, and everything works out. :)
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(Anonymous) 2016-05-01 12:26 am (UTC)(link)Diabetes research has been really great and I agree that Stacey would be happy. My older cousin was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes and I still remember being like "you can't eat that!" and she was like "yeah I can? I just need to adjust my insulin." Thanks Ann!
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...ahem. Sorry >_> These books are a tiny bit responsible for my epic freak-out when I first got diagnosed.
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(Anonymous) 2016-05-01 12:44 am (UTC)(link)Kristy's relationship with her mom is really sweet! And she called at 5:30 on the dot for their first meeting, so she would be their first ever client. All the girls seem so sweet and young and innocent and earnest.
Kristy coming to accept Watson is the greatest. I've always loved her and Watson's relationship. And Mimi is the absolute best. I'm so excited to read these pre-stroke books for Mimi. I really love getting to see the club develop its identity and all the weird early-book quirks (people mentioned the others, but another is that Elizabeth is Edie, which could certainly be a nickname but it's not used later). I'm excited to be re-reading.
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I really love getting to see the club develop its identity
Yes, me too! Watching them learn how to handle their clients and jobs was so sweet. I had completely forgotten about Pinky and Buffy haha, and let's face it, the Club Notebook is actually a really great idea.
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Oh, I'm going to be so sad about Mimi. I'm not prepared for...anything.
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I'm going to adopt head-canon that Patrick's second wife, whoever she is, kind of encourages him to not be a COMPLETE dick, but when their marriage falls apart and/or he divorces her, he becomes the utter asshole we're more familiar with. And then when he's ready to marry Zoey, she encourages him to reach out to his kids again.
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And if you take The Summer Before as canon, Kristy's storyline is that she's desperately hoping Patrick will contact her for her birthday, despite years of evidence to the contrary, because she wants her family back together before Watson ruins the possibility of it ever happening. :(
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Adorable chaos, but complete chaos. :D
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I seem to remember Kristy thinking it was weird that anyone would want to date Sam, but I don't remember very well.
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One of the things that really date these books, is the total abhorrence of Janine's computer. The girls really mock her hard (at least not to her face) for being on the computer so much, especially in the earlier books. The 80's "computer nerd" stereotype was so prevalent. If they only knew that by Friends Forever, they'd be emailing.
Random side note: this book was the first time I'd seen the word anorexia and I had to go look it up in a dictionary.
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(Anonymous) 2016-05-01 03:46 am (UTC)(link)Apparently this is a hot button topic for me.
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I'm curious about Janine's fourteen-year-old math genius friend! They'd be the same age as Sam (in the Math Club, maybe?)
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(Anonymous) 2016-05-01 05:42 am (UTC)(link)This is something I've never understood with Charlie/Janine. WHY DON'T PEOPLE PAIR HER WITH SAM? They're the same age and they can be brainy nerds together!
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Some thoughts:
-I love how Elizabeth is upfront with her teenage children that she feels guilty she doesn’t get to spend as much time with them as she wants. So, a year after Patrick (boo, hiss) left, she got a job and as of book-time, she’s in a great position working at Stamford? Way to go.
I like how we get the sense the Thomases were their own competent little kingdom, even before Watson came along. Thomas(-Brewer) family feels forever, tbh.
-Claudia saying that "oh you just think [my face] is exotic" in response to Kristy saying she’s beautiful is pretty interesting! I’m Asian, and as I grew older, I did realize that talks about how "exotic" we are is quite iffy. I don’t remember if this ever comes up again, though.
-Every time I see the word hopefully, I think about Janine and her beef with it! Thanks, book! Also, I’m pretty amused by how Claudia’s taming of the Feldmans is inspired by what her parents do when "she and Janine misbehaved" because...what on earth was tiny genius Janine’s misbehavior like?
-Claudia and Kristy’s mutual "we’re really doing this club" squee and camping out beside the phone during the first club meeting! <3
-the "divorced kids are special kids" part is ADORABLE. Heh, Karen is actually pretty sweet before she gets flanderized and deprived of contractions.
-MIMI. Ugh, I’m already bracing myself for the tears.
-as an adult, I feel even more for Mary Anne who has to deal with things like crying in front of her entire class. Anxiety issues are the worst to begin with, but at the age of twelve? Oh, Mary Anne.
-and the woobie Stacey feels begin! I love how Claudia sticks up for Stacey’s right to privacy from the very beginning.
-Kristy is the first one, in canon, to call Stacey "Stace", how cute.
-Wow, I did not remember that Sam is in Math Club. And Stacey is a Math geek! I’m just, ahhh. Now I want fic where there’s an academic meet or something and they have to ~deal with being rivals~ and Kristy loudly cheers on both of them from the sidelines.
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YES. I totally understand Kristy not wanting Watson to move in on their family, because they're managing so well (from her viewpoint, at least).
-as an adult, I feel even more for Mary Anne who has to deal with things like crying in front of her entire class. Anxiety issues are the worst to begin with, but at the age of twelve? Oh, Mary Anne.
Me too, me too :( :( I started getting panic attacks at 11, and it was AWFUL. Especially because anxiety wasn't really a ~thing that people diagnosed back then. I couldn't explain why I would burst into sudden tears or freak out at something that seemed so simple, and people always reacted in a way that made it worse. I was 22 before I realised I could simply say "I'm having a panic attack" and it would make everything easier, because at least then there was a reason to latch onto.
I feel like Mary Anne's experience would be pretty much the same :(
-Wow, I did not remember that Sam is in Math Club. And Stacey is a Math geek! I’m just, ahhh. Now I want fic where there’s an academic meet or something and they have to ~deal with being rivals~ and Kristy loudly cheers on both of them from the sidelines.
Nerdy Stacey fic is my favourite kind of fic and I think I need this particular fic in my life, YES ♥
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Some observations, in no particular order:
-Going from reading this book at age 10 and reading it at almost 30 is a head trip. The girls manage to be more mature than I expected in some ways (how quickly and efficiently they made the club!), and very much kids in other ways (how they treat Janine and how Kristy reacts to Watson).
-I'd forgotten how grumpy Kristy is about Mr. Spier! To the point she even says Claudia's dad is better than him. It'll be interesting to see what happens with Mr. Spier over the next few books-- I didn't remember him being super strict, and even most of the rules he has in place seem pretty reasonable.
-I had remembered that Kristy dislikes Watson at first, but not to that extent. Definitely didn't remember the "you're a terrible father!" moment, jeez. Has anyone written the awkward dinner with everyone after Kristy stormed off? Because that had to have been SUPER awkward.
-How much do I love that Kristy gets inspired to create the club by David Michael? Though I feel bad thinking about how many times their mom struggled to find a sitter and David Michael sat there feeling like a burden. :( It's okay, David Michael!
-I work with children now, so Karen doesn't annoy me so much as make me laugh because I have had so many similar conversations with kids her age. Also I just imagine all the long-suffering conversations Watson must have with Mrs. Porter/Morbidda Destiny and laugh some more.
-One thing that dates the book is the fact that the girls use cursive in the notebook and with Kristy's letter to Watson!
-I really love the Thomas family-- I like how they've got a system worked out so that Kristy, Sam, and Charlie get free time but also help out at the house and with David Michael, and how it seems to work except for emergencies or baby-sitters falling through. I also laughed at the "okay, you're giving us pizza, WHAT'S GOING ON?" family dinner. And Elizabeth taking at least fifteen minutes each day to talk with her kids individually got me a bit emotional.
-I had zero memory of Stacey and Sam liking each other, and can't remember if that goes anywhere, but I did like Kristy's "??? Does not compute!" thoughts on them. But like redsilverchains and ozqueen said above, now I really want Stacey and Sam being math nerds together. They could get invited for the American Mathematics Competition or something!
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My favourite Karen line in this book is her "dolls can do whatever people do" aside, because when she starts listing activities that dolls can totally do it's like "they can [something mundane], they can breakdance, they can...". The breakdancing took me by surprise!